EP/GP - New DKP System

Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask ...

Moderator: Management

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Yadard » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:23 pm

To be clear, as of now only the tanks are required to have a full raid viable off-spec set. This should be, in order of priority a healing or caster DPS set (if possible) then a melee DPS set. Given the number of tanks we have and the number of tanks currently requireed for raids this is unavoidable. I'm not going to re-hash old arguments about single tank bosses or anything here.

The reason for insisting on Healer / Caster DPS where possible is that 50% of the tanking classes can only go Melee DPS, so the rest of us have to make room (as it were) and anyway, as we saw Friday, throwing more healers at a fight has a bigger impact than extra DPS these days. This may change, but that's how this tier looks right now. For everyone else off-spec gear is still optional (but heavily encouraved, flexability is hugely helpful).

Look at it this way, at least you'll have something to spend your EP on once your main set is rock solid (and you'll have an advantage over the tanks who share Ex/Mastery and Hit/Mastery gear with you).
Polly says...
Polly says her back hurts,
and she's just as bored as me,
she caught me off my guard,
amazes me the will of instinct.
User avatar
Yadard
Management
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:47 pm
Location: Peterborough, UK

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Sepial » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:52 pm

Friday's need for an extra healer was probably due to my nubness at Cata healing. Whatever the reason, we killed him in the end which is what really matters.
Sepial
Champion
 
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:08 pm

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Torakii » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:12 pm

A lot of 25-man raid guilds are also recommending 7 healers for certain fights until gear improves to note. I don't know if these encoutners happen to be the same ones that require fewer tanks, but it's something to keep in mind when tanks are discussing who should switch to their offspec.

However, this poses the issue that Paladin and Druid tanks may either end up favored when organizing groups setups, or may even be required to continually switch out to their offspecs on certain encounters until these encounters get easier for us.

I'm thinking the concept of having offspec loot costing EP is an excellent idea though, as it will encourage people who are regularly switching roles to consider the gear they need, and will discourage players who will not use the gear from unnecessarilly rolling on loot that may never be used.
Image
User avatar
Torakii
Elite
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:33 pm
Location: Stoke-on-Trent

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Völundr » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:07 pm

I'm thinking the concept of having offspec loot costing EP is an excellent idea though, as it will encourage people who are regularly switching roles to consider the gear they need, and will discourage players who will not use the gear from unnecessarilly rolling on loot that may never be used.


I can definitely see where this comes from; however, I can also see a potential drawback(but at the same time, there has never been a 110% foolproof, perfect system with NO drawbacks at all.)

Said drawback is basically, people will be mostly concerned with their mainspecs first-and with good reason. Tanks, healers, and DPS will all need to be geared sufficiently for Heroic modes down the line(yes, it's down the line-but something that might be looked at early.) But people who maintain OS's for the raid's benefit will also need to pay more EP for keeping their offspecs sharp. Tanks with maintainted OS's will be paying a lot for both of their required specs; everyone who keeps an OS raiding ready will as well. It might cause some gear to be sharded if people have to pay for OS gear before their MS's are geared up. Not even in a selfish manner; for example, if DPS isn't up to snuff for Heroic modes due to lack of gear due to a few DPS maintaining a widely used offspec, it could cause problems. (Then again I might be confusing EPGP a bit too much with DKP here. If I am, forgive me. :mrgreen: )

A Gold method could be used with perhaps a touch of council? For example, a Tank with a Healing OS that actively uses said spec in raids shows interest in a healing item, as does someone who has a healspec that might heal a BG or random heroic once every couple weeks, but they don't really have too much interest in it . The raid would benefit a whole lot more from the tank who ends up healing once a week getting this item than the OS healer who heals a heroic once every couple weeks or a BG once in awhile. Not to disregard the feelings of the second person; but an active spec does help the raid as a whole. (Re: Heroic modes-I do imagine that they won't really be delved into until we have said raid of set up mainspecs, so this might not affect it as much as I put here.)

I understand a system like this could get touchy with a situation of two people who DO use the OS's, just one uses it more often but both do use it. However, the Gold + ''Have a Discussion'' method might actually cause more people to think ''hey, maybe if I actively start maintaining an OS I'll be able to suit up said OS more'' and maybe encourage more active offspecs, which is a plus in the long run.

Plus the gold gets put into the guild bank for mats, consumables, and all of that good stuff, which again, benefits everyone.

Yads also makes a good point though of having something to spend on OS gear after your MS is done; the main concern that sorta struck me is for people who go into offspecs WHILE they're still fixing up their mainspecs.

Sorry for the wall of text; for the final record I really like what I do know of EPGP, the system sounds nice and strong and look forward to it; and no matter WHAT is decided for Offspecs really I'd be all fine for. it's more just examining all the OS options and their pluses and minuses(which they really all have.) Just some suggestions and thoughts from a humble hitter of stuff. :D
Currently Playing: King of Fighters 14, Guilty Gear Xrd: Revelator, assorted retro games
User avatar
Völundr
Management
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Osebo » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:09 pm

I'm putting this in bold...

You don't spend anything in this system

You dont, and we can't have people "spending" EP either. The system is not balanced for that at all. It's not a system where you spend anything. You are rewarded for effort and that credit lets you get some gear.

It's really best to stop thinking of this as any kind of system where you spend or buy.
TS Elliot wrote:To do the useful thing, to say the courageous thing, to contemplate the beautiful thing: that is enough for one man's life
User avatar
Osebo
Management
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:06 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Völundr » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:21 pm

*switches brain mode*

Aye, thinking about it like THAT...yeah, again it sorta had me confused, is all. :oops:
Currently Playing: King of Fighters 14, Guilty Gear Xrd: Revelator, assorted retro games
User avatar
Völundr
Management
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Helsinki

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Haiko » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:36 pm

Exoticazz wrote:... Btw isn't there also a built in in epgp that you loose both ep and gp gained more than 3 months ago ? At least it was when i used the system, besides the decay...

Considering 4 weeks per month (which is more in any month but february), every point gained 3 months prio to spending it with the 10% decay / week will be "worth" 0,28 points anyways.

And you don't spend anything, you just lose prio ;p
"Scissors are overpowered. Rock is fine." - Paper

Haiko, 85 hunter - Hadid, 85 Death Knight - Tadao, 85 Druid - Sejima, 85 Rogue
User avatar
Haiko
Elite
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:51 pm
Location: Delft, Netherlands

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Torakii » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:16 pm

I see where you're coming from Azzy, but I reckon by mashing the numbers, Knights will earn enough EP to easily buy 2-4 MS items a week, so I don't think falling behind from gearing 2 specs will be too much of an issue.
Image
User avatar
Torakii
Elite
 
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:33 pm
Location: Stoke-on-Trent

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Shadram » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:01 am

Exoticazz wrote:Btw isn't there also a built in in epgp that you loose both ep and gp gained more than 3 months ago ? At least it was when i used the system, besides the decay.


The decay does exactly that. Seeing as your EP decays by 10% every week, it would take about 11 weeks (assuming you're actively raiding for that whole time) for a given week's EP to decay to around nothing.


Also, apologies for getting the off-spec gear requirement wrong. I'm rather limited in only seeing the forums these days, meaning I often only get half of a conversation that is finished via in-game chat. And since we don't have any anal members of management who insist on all "official" discussion being recorded on the forums any more (eg, Kuruk) lots of stuff gets decided that I don't know about. So no more reportage of news from me, I'll just talk about numbers, which I do understand.

Also, for those picking holes in the system and saying "spec x has to pay 5 points more for their gear than spec y!" well, I challenge you to find a single DKP system where that's not the case. Blizz has built enough complexity into the gearing system to ensure that this isn't possible (which is a good thing, it makes life interesting).
Still alive
Shadram
Site Admin
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:44 am

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Osebo » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:26 pm

After a bit of thought. We decided to revert to the old system for off-specc loot.

So, if you win an off-specc item - you now pay gold equal to its GP value minus a zero. So, an off-specc trinket is 2000GP or 200 Gold for offspecc.

Guild bank chests will be dropped every boss for people to pay their dues to the bank ;)
TS Elliot wrote:To do the useful thing, to say the courageous thing, to contemplate the beautiful thing: that is enough for one man's life
User avatar
Osebo
Management
 
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:06 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Sepial » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:35 pm

That seems to be a very sensible change.
Sepial
Champion
 
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:08 pm

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Softheart » Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:26 pm

"Guild bank chests will be dropped every boss for people to pay their dues to the bank"

Can you tell me what this means please, I hate not knowing what stuff is, even if it is nothing to do with me anymore.
User avatar
Softheart
Adventurer
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:33 pm

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Tethax » Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:31 pm

@Softheart.

Guild bank chests is more or less a portable guild bank. So "paying your dues" would mean making a deposit, like you normally would at a standard Guild Bank :)
User avatar
Tethax
Champion
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Norway

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Softheart » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:11 pm

Cheers dear.
User avatar
Softheart
Adventurer
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:33 pm

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Exoticazz » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:39 am

Btw in stead of using a start gp or next to it, it's wise for newcomers to make a rule that the first item they take can not be from a progression boss. That way they will always have an amount of gp, and have to work for progression loot like everybody else.
User avatar
Exoticazz
Champion
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:03 pm

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Tethax » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:22 am

Exoticazz wrote:Btw in stead of using a start gp or next to it, it's wise for newcomers to make a rule that the first item they take can not be from a progression boss. That way they will always have an amount of gp, and have to work for progression loot like everybody else.


I don't really see why... Don't new members do their part in killing new bosses? Are they doing less than older members?
User avatar
Tethax
Champion
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Norway

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Tallore Falanaar » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:30 am

Minimum EP: 1500. You need to have at least 1500EP to be eligible for loot. This is to prevent newer people from taking loot from people who've been raiding lots. This doesn't mean we shard loot when no-one in the very first raid has 1500 EP. It just means that anyone over this number has priority.


This takes care of that already though?
Down with pants.
User avatar
Tallore Falanaar
Champion
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:18 am

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Shadram » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:47 am

Sworn's never discouraged new members from taking loot, whether from progress bosses or farmed ones. If the player was there for the kill, they earned the right to /roll for the item. Loot for any member is an upgrade for Sworn as a whole, which leads to more success on subsequent bosses, and more rewards for everyone.

If the new member has a higher EP/GP than a long term member, it means that the long-term member has taken a lot of loot in the last few raids, meaning the new member will probably benefit more from the item, too. Any long-term member who's been unlucky with loot will always have a higher score.
Still alive
Shadram
Site Admin
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:44 am

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Exoticazz » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:23 pm

I mean if a new person does not take loot during his trial and does not get base gp he'll be only having EP and can take an item or two from a new boss we managed to kill for first time over people who have lots of ep but also gp and worked all the way to that boss, since 1500 ep is way more prio than for instance 30000 ep / 2000gp . It's just a warning, i sadly seen it happen with trials who passed trial than took some endboss tier with their high prio and left to other guild. Though we gave also full ep to reserves so they got quite a stash. I'm sure we all believe that will not happen in Sworn, but a base gp or a first item from boss on farm would make it not possible. In case a new one has no need for loot from bosses on farm, he'll just have to wait till the new boss is on farm.
User avatar
Exoticazz
Champion
 
Posts: 635
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:03 pm

Re: EP/GP - New DKP System

Postby Tethax » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:31 pm

There is a base GP, though. And the master looter(managment) also can make descissions based on what would be best for the group as a whole.
User avatar
Tethax
Champion
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:54 pm
Location: Norway

PreviousNext

Return to Rules and Information

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
FAIL (the browser should render some flash content, not this. Go to Adobe Page and Download Adobe Flash Player Plugin).